Comment Karen: are there proper names on the list? Comment syl: I came across "else". Maybe I'm wrong and "else" is something else than a female name in German I admit, I haven't checked the Duden or else for that matter and this is the only first name I came across on the list.
Comment I make the following points on today's comments: 1 There seems to be a consensus for excluding proper names - so let's just do it! This should be excluded. Comment 3 Abbreviations - I hear no objections to excluding them, so I hereby declare them excluded. Comment Question for Muttersprachler: Are words like 'drum', 'rum', considered Abkuerzungen or true words?
Die 3. Comment dg: I'm not familiar with alot of language resources Where could one check if two words are cognates before adding them to this posting? Comment 'bot' Salut Gabrielle, Not sure if you meant on-line resources or not. In any case, I'm not aware of any single resource that attempts to directly match inflected forms of German and English to determine if they're cognates or not.
But if you have a knowledge of how German words and inflected, then armed with that knowledge and a good monolingual English dictionary with etymological information there are many should do the trick. Take your candidate word, 'bat' for example. My desk-size Webster's Collegiate tells me that Engl. We can pretty safely assume that the inflected German past tense form 'bat' is not related to that, but could check a German dictionary under 'bitten' just to make sure.
One way to try to find new ones is to look at a conjugated verb table of German verbs, and find verb forms that look like they might be English words, and then check them in a dictionary. I just found a new False Enemy 'bot' that nobody seems to have mentioned; it's a form of 'bieten' don't ask me I don't know which one and of course is used these days in internet lingo.
We could probably find a whole lot more this way. T'es pas francophone par hasard? Comment Hi everybody, just wanted to jump in to respond to some of the questions that have started piling up. Who ever thought this would go on this long and that we'd need to think about the rules so carefully?
But since behind all the fun there is a useful purpose, if I don't know the "rule" myself because I never thought of the situation before, I can go back to the "noise word" situation myself to think if there's any help to be found there. In general, there wouldn't really be any reason to exclude anything that is understood by a speaker of the language encountering the word. Thus from that standpoint, you could include practically all of the categories mentioned. On the other hand, I do tend to agree with Hans who said, that it seems to be opening the floodgates too wide.
Probably we should relegate geographical names to the same category, for now. Shall we agree to do this? But as ultimately those too could be useful, shall we agree that it's just a moratorium, and if the current flood turns to a trickle someday, we will "reserve the right to reopen the floodgate" at a later time if we need to?
Same thing with acronyms, although to make the game interesting, should we keep acronyms, as long as the FE is ALSO an acronym, and must be totally unrelated? This should be fun, too, so I'd almost like to just take a vote and see what people want, but I also realize the value of having a referee, so there's not endless dickering about it.
Those would be my suggestions, but if there's a strong consensus for a different viewpoint, I can be convinced, so make your case! Finally, dg to your point about being a referee, I'd love to be a perfect bilingual with encyclopedic knowledge of both English and German etymology, but alas I'm very far from it; if I were, maybe I'd even rate being called the great old man on the mountain. But until then, I'm afraid we'll either just have to fight it out individually, unless someone comes along who is willing to take up that crown.
Comment Gabrielle, I have checked with my etymological dictionaries, and you have passed the congnate test. Comment This thread has now reached follow-ups. Therefore we ask you to consider the use of adding any more posting. Thanks for your attention and have a nice day. Thanks, Hans, for your help in etymology, what resources do you use? I searched the internet for an on-line German Dictionary like Duden which would give me roots of German words, but can you believe I didn't find any? So I'll need your help with a couple more: 1. Tip: D -- Hint; E -- to overturn, possibly different origin 2.
Peter, pas francophone, mais bilingue c'est-a-dire trilingue avec moins de peine en Allemand qu'en Francais. Ce qui me manque, surement, c'est la pratique! By the way, I vote for no proper names at all. They can get so unusual with the most arbitrary spellings. Like our famous Canadian figure skater "Toller" Cranston. There's a good FE, but how would you check the etymology? I have not found a really good online source yet. BTW, if you are interested in etymology, the takeourword site is a blast!! All 3 of your False Enemies have passed the cognate test. About "halter" - you don't even have to resort to Greek bug words.
Peter: I do not have "encyclopedic knowledge of English and German etymology", but I do have a few good dictionaries, and, more importantly, I really love researching the etymology of words. Therefore twist my arm It has been said that "in every German, there is a little policeman". So here is my big chance to live out my German policeman fantasies!! I'll let Hans be the judge of all these entries. Wow, judge AND police! Comment Gabrielle, your list is cognate-free, with one exception: stick rod and stick as in sticky and German stick von sticken all go back to the same Indo-European root.
What does "sock" mean in German? Comment If we count Gabrielle's "Tau", we should keep in mind that the twelfth letter in the Greek alphabet is "My". The advantage of these Greek letters is that they can serve as either part of a False Enemy pair. Another one: the Rhine has two tributaries called Ill the first one in Vorarlberg, Austria, the second one in Alsace.
Comment Reinhard II - the latest ruling is that geographical names are out see Peter's post from Sun Nov 17 Place names are a "can of Worms" pun intended. Comment Oh, sorry. I was thinking "Socke" and too tired to realize "sock" is english too! So don't add this one to the list. What about "passage" instead? D: Passage from the french "passer" E: To cause a horse to move sideways comes from L "passus": a step.
Comment It's time to bring this thread to the top of the list again. Comment This thread at least has some intelligence value! Comment Hans, you could also do a new list, incorporating all the words added since the last list. You could post the list in several boxes, that would increase the length of the thread. Plus for the rest of us still trying to find those few elusive FE's, an updated list makes it easier to prevent duplication.
Comment couldn't find it in the thread, therefore: sticker - G: embroiderer, E: tag or label could you check the etymology? Another cognate in the same family is E "stitch". I could list them one to a post to raise the thread count, but that would be LAME. Scratch number Comment Wow, dg, you are outdoing yourself. I especially like "butte". I have reservations about "bins" - for the very reason that you give in your post from Fri Nov 15, where you asked: Question for Muttersprachler: Are words like 'drum', 'rum', considered Abkuerzungen or true words? And the answer is: 'drum' and 'rum' may be OK, but definitely not "bins".
Because really there should be an apostrophe in that word: "bin's". Keep 'em coming!! Comment If we're still taking Greek Letters, there's "Nu". Comment pries: D-past tense of "preisen"; E-3rd person singular of "pry" mir: E- a Russian local community meter: D-meter unit of length E- A person or thing that measures from my dictionary, it looks like these come from different roots, although they both have something to do with "measure" Does "pony" count?
Or are the German "bangs" similar to the pony's hair? Comment Gabrielle- greek letters? Meter- surely this is the same word, what does your dictionary say? Pony - isn't this just a loanword from ponytail? Pries - I like it; how could i have missed it? Hans- I'm glad you liked butte - it was a beaut.
War of the Bavarian Succession - Wikipedia
I guess the distinction between 'bins' and 'rum','drum', and 'ran' is that the former is a contraction of two words and the latter are contractions of just one word. Comment dg: we had a couple of Greek letters before Tau and My and Hans self-appointed cognate policeman has not yet given the verdict on those, so just in case they're in, we'll add "Nu".
Of course the origin is Russian, but I would use this word in English in the same way I would speak of "Kibbutz", I guess. As for meter, I have two definitions.
One comes from Latin "metrum", a measure, which comes from Greek "metron" this would be the German "meter". The other one comes from the English word "mete" which means "to apportion" and comes from the Old English "metan", which may or may not have the same root as "metron" I put this out for Hans to judge. As for "pony", maybe it should be listed in False Friends if it isn't already. I've always found this a strange expression in German because it means the fringe of hair on the forehead, whereas the ponytail is the back hair pulled together. And no, I'm not kidding, I'm trying to find ones which have slipped through the cracks.
The easy ones have been done already by other people when the going was easy Comment Gabrielle, sorry to be such a downer, but Latin "metrum", Greek "metron", Old English "metan" and German "messen" all go back to the same root - if you dig deep enough. As for the letters of the Greek alphabet - I see no rule in this thread that speaks against them. They are regular entries in all dictionaries, not proper names. I have another False Enemy for you which is based on the Greek alphabet: gamma E: 3rd letter in the Greek alphabet gamma Bavarian for "let's go" Too bad the rules say that a FE has to be Hochdeutsch.
Diese sog. Ceterum censeo, in dubio pro FEo. Comment wert past of "thou art". Ideally, this thread should gradually self-destruct. Hans- i forgot to ask, what was it like being on a diet of Worms when you were growing up? Comment vinzenz: bitte schau dir nochmal die Grundregeln der Falsche-Feinde-Jagd an ganz oben oder vom I need a volunteer with a good dictionary to check the etymology. Congratulations and don't give up. Comment syl-de - concerning your comment about my "dig deep enough" Indo-European root argument: OK, I admit it, I am being over-zealous. The etymology judge will no longer call hypothetical "Ur"-Languages to the witness stand.
Gabrielle, your "meter" FE is re-instated. He brought me a little bag full of roasted mealworms. They are really quite tasty!! No kidding. But since I have just told syl-de that this argument is no longer permissible in court, "Kinder" is legitimate. On the constructive side, here is a new FE which, admittedly, is a little lame : fest - D: tight, E: festival borrowed from German Fest.
I got this wrong in my previous post and so did, by the way, websites - do a Google search on "entymology"!! Comment all FE-freaks: Wow, you did good work so far, I'm quite impressed. Never thought that anyone might keep at this for so long. Anyway, no chance to beat the Chatroom-thread again, even posting some new FEs one by one I bet. But just don't think you will stay unwatched for the future Regarding fest, please check my post of Nov 6 KS- this thread cannot continue much longer, but the chitter-chatter thread will endure.
Duad ma leid, awa des miass ma schdreicha. I'll mind the spelling. Comment Hans: and I always thought entymology was the study of the origin of bugs One question for you: I don't get what you don't like about 'bins'? To me it's a simple plural whose singular goes all the way back to OE also a more recent verb. On the other hand, it just makes it more fun and challenging to find new ones. I still think there's a class of words out there derived from inflected verb forms in German that may be FE's.
As far as "competition" for longest thread, it's inevitable that a chat thread will win out in that category, and I see no reason we should try and inflate this thread just for that. Speaking of length, are people okay about the length and load time of this thread? I don't mind breaking it in two if there seems to be a consensus for that I'd like to be the originator of the new thread if that's what we all agree should be done. On the other hand, if people feel it is already winding down, maybe it won't be necessary to start a new one.
Comment Are all the words in the last compilation really FEs? Where did "Christendom" come from? Is that really a German word? I have two more: Blende: D- diaphragm photography E- zinc sulphide Lande: D- first person singular of "landen" E- Level sandy region unfit for cultivation etc. Comment besiege G: imperative of conquer, E: belagern. Comment Not yet finished! Comment Bravo, Gabrielle!
You proved Lukas wrong, and found 3 more FEs. I had to think hard about each of these, since they are not obvious. Here is what I found: hops - G: imperative of hopsen, or slang expression "hops gehen" to die. But since I am no longer allowed to play the Indo-European card, it's a go! I said 'would gradually self-destruct'.
I didn't say it was imminent. Yes, posts takes too long to load,but it would be a shame to stop it now. There do seem to be some dodgy entries on the main list: gras,gaul,bezirks,werf,worms, and some others I'm not sure about either. Comment Just when you thought we had reached the bottom of the barrel, I found 3 more False Enemies: ringer - E bell ringer, G wrestler strange - E peculiar, G dative of Strang, as in.
Comment sorry on 'wind'. It's been mentioned several times but i got lazy and didn't do a full search first. Comment ! Comment Go, dg, go!!! I particularly like your "flute" posting - it's such a simple and obvious False Friend unlike your "Knicks - norddeutsche Wallhecken , that it's hard to believe nobody had found it earlier. Comment German "Knicks" can also mean "curtsy". Comment Yes, but I am a guy, and guys don't do Knickses. Guys "machen einen Diener" gibt's das heute noch? Why should there be in the first place an enmity between "Kind" and "kind", between "verging vergehen " and "verging verge?
Is the enemy false not worthy or has the enemy been recognized as not being the right or real enemy? Accidental cognates such as "bin", "flog", "berate" also have their etyma. Forums Trainer Courses. LEO: Additional information. Print PDF. You need to be logged in to start a new thread. Registration and participation are free! Ask the LEO community. Recent lookups click on a word to display the dictionary results again :.
Made, rot, rein, Teller, Bier, dick, bin, flog Als "false friends" fallen mir gerade eventuell - eventual, actual - aktuell ein. These are great!! I don't know who's having more fun: me reading the responses, or those of you unearthing these great examples! Found two more: bat, ward "er ward nie mehr gesehen". Hamburger as in opposite of Hamburgerin , stand, strafe, hummer as in one who hums - I'm digging deep now - that is the problem with reponding so late!
It's funny, I start looking through every text I'm reading to find these enemies: blender, lobe. I noticed there's no "Q" in the list yet, so you better enter "Qualm" as well. It's OK, chrissiek, because an ass is also an animal like a donkey, not only a North American word for the posterior Some more: male, bade, wage, met, turn, lore, leg, lager and, if it counts, spree the river thru Berlin. Probe, dies Peter: Will you let us know when we've got'em all? How many do we have by now? Since we've already had a few rivers: what about "Inn"?
Every time I think we've got all of 'em, you guys continue to amaze me and come up with more! Here are some contributions to the in meantime quite impressive list: quake deutsch: Imp. When river names are o. Reinhard II: You can't image the giggles that the 'Diet of Worms' produced in history class in high school I don't want to spoil the party, but following our rules, I am afraid, we have to eliminate several words from the list, because they have the same origin. Sylvestor: I agree with you that artist and cafeteria don't belong here, but the others definitely do.
False false enemies? Hm, interesting. About the definition of False Enemies: Thanks for all the great comments. Of course they are, dear native speaker. Hans,you have shot me down,but how about this one: jammer. What about the word bob? There seems to be a size limit on comments now, which is why I couldn't post before. Interesting comments, Hans, and thanks for bringing them up. Nevertheless, since as you point out there is an increasing number of questionable entries I would just like to make a few points about what belongs and what doesn't.
Be that as it may, some additional comments to clarify the definition, beyond what has already been said, may be in order. So if I had to restate the rules very precisely, it would go like this: 1. I don't want to get into the rules for false friends here, they could well be different. About place names: why are they allowed? So, I hope this has helped to refocus on what exactly is a "False Enemy". Whew, what an ordeal! An Amelie Beitrag vom Part 2: H - Q hag, half, hall, Hamburger, handy, hang, happen, hart, haste, hasten, hat, heck, heft, held, hell, heller, helm, her, herb, herd, herd, hob, hold, hole, horst, hose, hub, hummer, hut, Inn, ire, island, jag, jammer, just, kerb, kind, kipper, kitten, lab, labor, lack, lad, lade, laden, lag, lager, lake, lass, last, latte, leer, leg, lest, lied, liege, limo, link, links, list, lob, lobe, loch, locker, log, lore, lose, lot, lump, lunge, lurch, mach, Made, mag, main, male, man, mantel, mark, mark, mass, maul, met, minder, mine, mist, mitten, mode, mole, moll, moos, moose, moped, mops, most, mull, Murks, muss, muster, mutter, natter, nett, nix, not, Note, null, nun, nut, old-timer, pack, page, pate, pest, pike, plane, Platte, plump, Po, police, pope, posse, post, pro, Probe, promotion, provision, puff, pulli, pummel, pump, pup, pups, quake.
Part 3: R - Z including a few Q's that should have been in the previous post Qualm, quark, quell, queue, quote, racker, rad, rain, rand, rang, range, raps, rat, regal, reif, rein, rest, riff, rind, ring, rock, roman, rose, rot, rote, routine, ruck, sack, sag, sage, salve, same, schmuck, see, sense, siege, singe, smoking, smoking, sold, sole, span, spanner, spare, spat, speck, spiel, spinner, spleen, spree, spring, spur, spurt, stab, stand, star, stark, stern, stile, stock, store, strafe, strand, stuck, such, sud, summer, sure, Tag, talk, tang, tank, taste, tat, tee, teil, Teller, these, tick, tier, toll, Ton, tor, tot, tote, traps, tripper, trunk, tun, turn, turner, wade, wage, walker, wall, wand, war, ward, wart, was, web, welch, welt, wen, werf, wetten, wetter, wider, will, wink, Worms, wort.
OK, really there are only entries in the list, I did not remove the duplicates!! Bilge ist auch deutsch, steht sogar im Leo.
Christoph Martin Wieland
But "nun!! Nicht, wenn Freund Erkan aus bestimmten Regionen in unserem schoenen Lande kommt I have wasted another half hour to come up with another 4 "Falsche Feinde": blast German: 2nd person plural of blasen dang past tenst of dingen - I admit this one is rather obscure lost German: 3rd person singular of losen tut English tut-tut: the clicking sound of disapproval for which there is no letter in our alphabet I must admit that my main motivation is to see how long we can keep this thread going. Heinz, auf deine Frage "Wann schlaft ihr eignetlich? Hans, I should have remembered, since I used to live in the greater N.
Peter I didn't know that "old-timer" is a loan word, as you say. I can't stand looking at this mega-thread without having added anything. Is the term "double-beamer" still around? Ich haette noch "floss" im Angebot. I am in awe at how long we have kept this thread going. Let's push it. Wie waers mit: cat - Katze Cat - Catamaran ich weiss ist eine Abkuerzung, aber jeder Segler sagt er segelt einen Cat - wenn ers denn tut Wo ist eigentlich Peter, der das ganze ins Rollen gebracht hat.
I am really impressed by this thread. Silke--I'm always here, I just don't like to post too often unless I have something specific to share--this isn't "my" thread, it's ours, everybody's, it belongs to everyone who has contributed, and who will contribute. What about christendom? Almost a whole week has gone by, and no new "Falsche Feinde" have been posted.
I am not sure, but is "Springer" such a false friend? Anne, da haste mitten ins Schwarze getroffen!! Congratulations, we have reached entries by now. Questionable entries 64 in number : after, Allen, artist, beamer, blank, bomber, brand, brave, braver, brief, cafeteria, chef, chef, colt, courage, fade, fall, fang, fix, fusion, gang, genial, genie, gift, glibber, gymnasium, hamburger, handy, hang, haste, hose, just, lager, labor, mode, null, old-timer, pest, Platte, pope, post, probe, promotion, provision, pylon, queue, quote, roller, roman, routine, spinner, spleen, spring, springer, stand, stark, strafe, tripper, turn, turner, wall, web, will, wink.
This is of course no final verdict. Syl-de, a big thank you from me and the rest of the FE-community for compiling the latest list of False Enemies. Many thanks at syl. I'm so sorry, but I have to reduce the total amount once more: "chef" is contained twice in the list of questionable entries. It was a very rainy sunday afternoon, when I noticed how many of those Falsche Feinde are still around. Hans Wolff: Well, I think it's time to paint the porch I forgot to ask before Heinz H, I have finished the first coat of paint on my porch.
Vielen Dank, Hans! Heinz H. Neither do I own a porch nor am I obliged to paint one. Syl-de, don't you know that this "I could stop any time" attitude is one of the typical symptoms of FES addiction? Grille D: cricket, E: Grillrestaurant, cf. Got another one!
Reinhard II: Thanks for the hint! ES, "bar" was already posted on Oct 16 by our chief False-Enemy catcher, syl-de. Reinhard II: that's what I also learnt from that website. Sorry guys, there's no scoring for "fes". This would be absolutely boring! This weekend being astonishingly warm and sunny has kept me from my favourite leisure activity most of the time. Amazing, syl! Reinhard, I am afraid you are right. Just came across unbar D: cashless; E: aufsperren hope that will make up for the 'mess' ;-.
Arrgrgrg -- this thread is driving me nuts! Well, congratulations to Doris for joining the ranks of people with FES. Donjo, that's it! Sorry that I have to object to dg's "still". Bingo, Gabrielle! I knew it! Kann es sein, dass ich trotz der bereits vorhandenen phaenomenalen Liste auch eins gefunden habe? Well done, Silke! I am setting snares for them - and they are trapped before you can say FES Disputed entries 65 : after, Allen, artist, beamer, blank, bomber, brand, brave, braver, brief, cafeteria, chef, colt, courage, fade, fall, fang, fix, fusion, gang, genial, genie, gift, glibber, gymnasium, hamburger, handy, hang, haste, hose, just, labor, lager, mode, null, old-timer, pest, Platte, pope, post, probe, promotion, provision, pylon, queue, quote, RAF, roller, roman, routine, smoking, spinner, spleen, spring, springer, stand, stark, strafe, tripper, turn, turner, wall, web, will, wink.
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